The Nasty Note

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CampADK
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The Nasty Note

Postby CampADK » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:43 pm

Now that Kate and I have completed our 2 week vacation at Fish Creek, I am able to address the 'Nasty Note' issue...

This post is in response to the couple that was seen leaving a note on our picnic table on Site 105
Click for more info!
    
August 1st, before we arrived to enjoy our August vacation at Fish Creek.

Can you imagine arriving at your site and finding this on your picnic table?

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Firstly this is the absolutely wrong way to communicate your point. Why didn't you just come over, send an email even, anything other than do this, and why didn't you have the supposed 'dozens' of campers sign it? The tone of your note is 100% negative... tsk! It is also disappointing that you were not informed before making such judgements.

It is apparent that you feel that Fish Creek is a 'secret', a special place not to be shared and you have some sort of 'entitlement'.

Sorry... you are wrong.

Fish Creek is not a secret. It never has been actually! You should know that Fish Creek has been more than just popular... almost impossible to get into, and not just since the website existed, but since the 1930's... that is close to 80 YEARS ago! :lol: But don't take my word for it... look back in the archives going back to the 1930's when it was often stated that Fish Creek had a "no vacancy" sign for the months of July and August. Did you know Fish Creek turned away 2,566 campers back in 1975? The CCC and later DEC continually expanded to try to keep up with demand, which also included expanding both Fish Creek and Rollins Pond many times. Campers used to line up for a mile or more down the road on Route 30 for years. Subsequently the 'holding tank' was moved to the beach area. Talk to the long time Fish Creekers who actually experience this. The reservations system was implemented in 1975, and moved to online reservations somewhere between 2000 and 2002, long before fishcreekpond.com even existed. As one Fish Creeker reminded me, the generations of Fish Creeks have also grown over the decades as their families have expanded. Some references can be found in the Historical section here on the site at http://fishcreekpond.com/history.html .

How does a website ruin your 'experience' as you put it? Can't comment on that one.. you are just not making sense. Maybe you are having a hard time booking a site (everyone has been having 'reservation' issues at Fish Creek for close to 80 years now). Talk to the current reservation system about that one (Reserve America). Fishcreekpond.com has nothing to do with reservations. Visit reserveamerica.com or call them at 1-800-456-2267 to voice your opinions. If you are really upset with them, you might want to join the list of complainers at http://www.reserveamericasucks.com/ (that site has been around since 2004).

You apparently believe that fishcreekpond.com promotes Fish Creek but it doesn't. The vast majority of visitors to the site find it by googling 'fish creek pond', not by searching on 'new york campgrounds', 'places to camp in the adirondacks', 'best state parks in upstate new york' or 'adirondack camping'. Don't take my word for it... try it yourself. How about links to fishcreekpond.com? Check Google.... see http://www.google.ca/search?q=link:fishcreekpond.com . Oops... my bad, I linked from our own site. The fishcreekpond.com site was created for Fish Creek campers. It's a community site where Fish Creekers have some great tools to assist them in selecting sites, especially useful when you are limited in choice (at least in July and August, 2 months out of the 7 it is open). It answers questions people have, and provides a place of community, and sharing. It is also a way to bring together the history and memories that this special campground has provided countless generations of Fish Creekers that may otherwise be lost. It has even brought together Fish Creekers that have not been in touch in years.

"Everyone hopes you can't make reservations some day"... who is 'everyone'? Your personal attack is uncalled for (you don't even know us). Over the years we have met hundreds of campers who come by, especially since we camp here from April thru October, and we run the website. Campers stop over every single day to say 'thanks' in appreciation for the website, share ideas, or simply shout out kind words as they bike or boat by our site. This past trip alone we have met at least 50 campers who stopped in for the first time to voice their appreciation. I have hundreds of emails (just checking I have 1,383 email to be exact in my FCP mail folder) that I have received from the sites "Contact Us" form with complements or questions, as well as postings of appreciation throughout the campers forum. So why after the 4 years that the website has existed (only the last two of which the site has become 'known'), have I never once heard such negative comments? Where are the dozens of campers that think the website is 'stupid' and hope that we can never stay here at the expensive of other out of state campers? Is it stupid to help campers find a site that will fit their camper size, or provide safe access to the waterfront for their toddlers? Is it stupid to share the memories that could otherwise be easily lost over the years of the old timers. Is it stupid to provide a place where you can relive your memories at Fish Creek or get your 'fix' over a long cold winter?

I get the impression that you are suggesting that Fish Creek 'belongs' to the 'True Fishcreeker'. What is the 'True Fishcreeker'?? Does he/she have to have coming here every year for at least 50 years or live in New York state? I don't thing so. A 'True Fishcreeker' is one of the hundreds of campers we have met over the years. The camper such as the couple in 2005 who ask my son if he wanted to learn to waterski (that was before we purchased our own boat), the camper who assists you backing your camper in, lends you a lighter or just says 'good morning' on your walk at 7am. True Fishcreekers are caring people, who offer kind words, who's eyes light up as they speak of the generations that their families have spent at Fish Creek. They are the ones that look forward all year to being 'home again', whether they are from New York, or North Carolina. True Fishcreekers are our favorite people, which is why we spend so much time in the Adirondacks, and why the website exists in the first place.

If it wasn't for the 'True Fishcreekers', fishcreekpond.com wouldn't even exist. It continues to grow and thrive because of the comments, suggestions and kind words of countless campers that encourage us. Personally I have devoted countless hours to date on the site as my way of 'paying it forward' to the wonderful people of Fish Creek. If it weren't for these great folks, I wouldn't have any reason to devote so much of my time to the site. We wouldn't have the free pizza contest or discounts for Fish Creekers at the Wild Center either.

And regarding the comment about out of state only being able to book until 6 months in advance. Where did you hear that? There is no such agenda set out by the DEC that anyone has heard of. As a property owner in New York State, who pays New York State taxes we wouldn't be effected anyways (sorry). Why should out of state campers be penalized? What if New Yorkers travelling out of state were subject to the same restrictions you suggest and never have the chance to camp at Yosemite for example?

If you consider the website as 'stupid', then why make it membership only? Who would get to be a member? Would you have to pass a 'true' Fishcreeker test? The site does not require being a 'member', as many people do not 'join' every website they visit. Requiring people to 'join' to access what should be public information is not something that makes any sense.

And just one more word on the subject of the 'True Fishcreeker'... The
'True Fishcreeker' leaves the next camper a penny on the picnic table
for good luck, not a nasty note...

Dave
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby rfinley » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:23 pm

I can not believe that someone had the nerve (Louise made me change my wording !!) to leave a message like that. I guess it's true, it takes all kinds to make the world go round. It was no easier waiting in line out on the highway for a site. I know because I lived it. Don't get me wrong, we met some of the nicest people in the world waiting in that line but it was a take what is left system. Having met you and Kate the last two years at Fish Creek I can continue to say you meet the best people camping at Fish Creek. My first post was in the middle of January having Fish Creek withdrawals and couldn't believe the work you did on the site. It has become one of my daily habits to check out what my new friends that I have met on FIshcreek.com are up to. Dave / Kate, Louise and I do thank you for what you have done and I hope you can take the note with a grain of salt and continue to do what all us multi generational Fish Creek families have enjoyed, seeing the site get better and better. We thank you !!

As we were leaving from our last stay I took this picture....
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Last edited by rfinley on Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby CampADK » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:14 pm

Thanks Randy. Kate left a flower arrangement sitting in a vase made out of birch bark on our table, I added the penny :lol:

I did run into an article in the archives about a demonstration that occurred one year with the reservation limits I believe. I'll have to look that one up.

Here is an article from July 27, 1959 (50 years ago) entitled Disgruntled Campers Turned Away at Fish Creek

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Interestingly it sounds like more than 50 years ago there was a much broader representation from across the US and Canada than there is today. Several articles suggest that you could see license plates from most every state years and years ago at Fish Creek. One article from 1967 said that the author counted license plates from 27 states in a line over a mile long on Route 30 waiting to get into Fish Creek.
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby LtPoopsie » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:26 pm

Dave,
I have been going to Fish Creek my entire life, and because of your "GREAT" site I have met more wonderful people in the last few years than all of the 30 years before combined. I thank you for all of the time that you put in for all of us. The act of leaving a note is cowardly! To who ever left the note, "Fish Creek doesn't want anyone with that type of mentality".
========================================================================================================
Some national parks have long waiting lists for camping reservations. When you have to wait a year to sleep next to a tree, something is wrong. ~George Carlin~
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby WNYakker » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:31 am

All I can say is "WOW!!!"..... :shock:

To think most of us go up to the ADKs to get away from people like this note leaver.....

Unreal....

Don't let it bother you....You've done way more positive things for Fish Creek/Rollins Pond then anyone could imagine!

Keep up the Good Work!

Phil
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby ratherbcamping » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:05 am

There is no denying that Fish Creek was always busy. Back in the late 60s, when I was a young girl of 8 or 10, I remember waiting in line on the main road outside the gate. Often, dad set up the pop-up, still attached to the car, and the seven of us were there overnight! As I look back, not only was that hard on my mom, but it was pretty unsafe! No wonder my mom hated camping there!

I most definitely appreciate the photographs and descriptions of the sites. We have a large rig, and I often consult these when making my reservation. I eagerly await the iPhone version that I can check at the gate "off season". I also enjoyed the pizza we had for dinner a few weeks ago, courtesy of Dave, Chad, and the Trading Post. While I haven't used it yet, I also appreciate Dave's internet hotspot. There is no doubt that Dave cares about the campers at Fish Creek.

The note is definitely the cowardly way of handling things. Dave and I have conversed about this same topic. With an open discussion, it is much easier to see the other person's perspective and broaden one's view. Dave's response to the note is thoughtful and well-written. I hope that the note-writer checks this site and truly thinks about the posts on this topic. While it is doubtful that he or she will change their minds, perhaps the posts will at least cause them to think about what they did.
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby jldeni » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:16 am

Dave and Kate - Although this year was our first trip to FCP, we did not hear about it through the web site. People in our camping circles have been telling us for years that Fish Creek is the place we must try. Honestly, the pics you've posted did help me pick a great camp site, but it was word of mouth that brought us to this most excellent campground to begin with - just as it was word of mouth for the past 80 years that kept people coming.

Keep up the great work on the web site. I check in often to see what's going on and I really appreciate all the effort that goes into maintaining it and keeping it interesting. Really, I would have liked to stop by and shake your hand for providing such a great service, but we weren't camping at the same time this year. Maybe another time!

All the best to both of you, and don't let the bastards get you down!
Jim & Simone :D :lol:
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby CampADK » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:33 am

Thanks for all the responses. I had asked staff about the effect the website has made. Essentially they said it hasn't made any difference in reservations in the summer months since they have always been full, but it has helped increase occupancy in the spring and fall seasons.

In the old days when the campground was full.. that truly meant full! Since there was always a waiting line, no sites would ever be empty. With the reservation system that has all changed and now 'full' means all the sites are paid for, but not necessarily occupied. In peak season I notice lots of empty sites (checking in late evening or early morning of course). Back when we started camping at Fish Creek I remember seeing very few unoccupied sites (from my campsite guide photo taking days). The reservation system has been around since we started camping here in 2003, so I'm not sure what has happened. Why are so many sites empty compared to several years ago?

It is also interesting to read about the people from so many states and provinces that used to camp at Fish Creek. Although I haven't done any visual checking, it does seem that the vast majority are NY plates with a few from Vermont, New Jersey, Ontario, Quebec, and the odd plate from beyond. If anything visitors to Fish Creekers are much more 'local' than the old days. Most campers are within a 6 hour drive, Ontario and Quebec campers are typically only 2-3 hours away.
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby C&S » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:35 am

Can't believe someone would be so rude! Do these people honestly think they have some sort of claim over the park? What a bitter and selfish way to see life... not to mention the whole grade-school mentality of leaving a note on your site. :roll:

Anyhow, let's focus on the positive! THANK YOU Dave & Kate for all the work you put into creating and maintaining this site. Sure, I might not have heard of FCP through this website, but what you have here is a beautifully put together wealth of information not just about the park, but the area in general. It's a tourism gem to have a site like this to help plan a vacation. I can't tell you how many times I've researched a campground and thought to myself "Darn, I wish this place had a fan page like fishcreekpond.com!" because I wasn't finding the info I wanted from the State Park website or even the campground's own website.

Anyhow, keep up the awesome work on this site, I do believe you have many more supporters than those crankypants who left that note. Again, thank you!

~sylvie
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby CampADK » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:48 am

Crankypants... LOL :mrgreen:

Thanks Sylvie
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby Marbel » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:39 am

Unbelievable!!!

For what it's worth, I didn't discover Fish Creek from your website. I actually discovered Rollins Pond first and then while researching online, came upon your site, which I LOVE. Thank you so much for your hard work in maintaining it and all the wonderful photos. I really appreciate this site. Thank you. We don't get to go to FCP/Rollins often enough so I come here to get my dose.

So sorry you had to deal with that at the start of your vacation. That really bites. To Crankypants, that was a crummy thing to do. Image
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby CampADK » Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:15 pm

"Mister Cranky Pants" T-shirt are now available for $22.70

See http://www.zazzle.ca/cranky_pants_mens_ ... 4053368507
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby kkirsch » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:02 pm

They must have never waited 3 days in line (in typical Fishcreek weather) to get in. Granted your site does advertise the place but the word was out way before that (we use to tell people how miserable it was to camp there)(we were nasty weren't we?). I have camped across the country and have probably about 80% of the national parks under my belt, yet we always come back to FC. It is for 2 weeks (more if we cheat) our own lake front property for the financially deprived. Granted with the budget crunch in NY and the taxes we pay maybe the out of state surcharge may be a good thing but that has nothing to do with your site. There are many times I just pull up a site just to sit at my office and dwell on a better place to be. I for one THANK YOU for putting this site online. If I had the knowledge and lack of laziness to do so I would have put a site like this up long before. To the nasty note person. Be more imaginative in reserving a site. Make a stab at a 9 month guess you can get off. It was worse at one time 12 months, 3 months, drive up and get in line a minute after closing then wait. AT this site you get to spot out a site before you can't put your 28 ft camper on it and best of all you can come on to this forum and gripe to campers about loud generators, why flowers were planted around the bathrooms or simply find out where you can plug your wheelchair battery in. Again Thank you Dave and Kate you may be out of staters but you have done everyone that love this place a wonderful service. I am sorry for the note you got and if you find out who that person is you direct them to contact me, a fishcreeker since I was 2 who inherited the tradition from ancentors who came her when it was free and cars had wooden wheels. My father who can no longer venture to far from the house gets a chance to bring up some fine memories just by bringing your site up on line and my mother weeks before she passed still asked me how she could get here and would gripe because her dial up loaded the pictures to slow.
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby C&S » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:30 pm

campadk wrote:"Mister Cranky Pants" T-shirt are now available for $22.70

See http://www.zazzle.ca/cranky_pants_mens_ ... 4053368507


HA!!! :lol: Love it!
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Re: The Nasty Note

Postby humormeplease » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:44 pm

Dave & Kate,

Susan & I adore the two of you, keep up the great work with the website. There are many individuals like the special needs "note caper" who think they are DUE something from everyone and everywhere...we have all been next to them in restaurants, behind them in lines at the grocery store, and often find them driving behind us on the road!

Dave, I hope you did not lose one wink of sleep over this as you have a very strong following, we love you both!

As for the "note caper"...BOO-HOO cry me a river, continue to look in on the rest of us as you are in your own world. I hope the website continues to ward off fools like yourself for years to come! As Chevy Chase once said in the movie Chistmas Vacation...And I want to look him "note caper" straight in the eye, and I want to tell him "note caper" what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, d---less, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey s--t he is! Hallelujah! Holy s-it! Where's the Tylenol?

That's all folks. :shock:

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