Is a kayak/canoe REALLY a boat?

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d_s_144
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Is a kayak/canoe REALLY a boat?

Postby d_s_144 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:56 pm

Every year, when it is time to launch the boats for the week, we seem to run in to a gaggle of people clogging the launch with their 'boats'. Most of these watercraft (sorry, they aren't boats, in my opinion) and their owners take their sweet time vacating the launch. They tie down without pulling forward, they drain them in the driveway, stow their random belongings and so on. Basically, it seems that most spectators (of which I am forced to be, waiting on these folks) seem to comment about the arrogance of these people and the blind-eye toward actual boats trying to get in or out of the ponds. Even the poor NYSDEC girl checking boats for invasives voiced her opinion, in a tone that was easily audible to these interlopers. I have a canoe and a kayak, and I enjoy them both very much, but I have NEVER occupied the launch to get them floating. It seems ridiculous to me that they are even allowed to use it. How does the launch help someone with a floating device that might weigh an entire 45 pounds and is made out of plastic? I assume they loaded it on their vehicle without the benefit of an entire boat launch (even one as small as FCP).

My boat, like many other boats on FCP, is 21' long, has a 200 hp outboard, travels on a dual-axle trailer and weighs nearly 2 tons. I have to register boat and trailer, have my hull number clearly displayed in NYS approved letters and insure my watercraft. Thats a BOAT.

Walmart sells toys, not boats. If you can buy your 'boat' at Walmart, it is simply NOT A BOAT. As such, get out of the 'boat launch'. It seems insane to wait 20-30 minutes for toys to be hoisted in the back of a truck or a roof rack. I actually need the launch for my actual boat. Launch your toys from your site, or on the sides of the launch. Don't clog the driveway, don't clog the launch. Seems like common sense, but it has been proven otherwise for many years. Maybe I'm in the vast minority, but I own all three and I know how I operate. I guess I'm not disrespectful enough to my fellow campers to consume facilities that are designated for others, as I'm learning from some of these repeat offenders. If NYS didn't give you a hull number, IT ISN'T A BOAT!

So, back to my original queries: A) is a kayak/canoe a 'boat'; and B) should they be in the boat launch?
cf06adk
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Re: Is a kayak/canoe REALLY a boat?

Postby cf06adk » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:48 am

What you're referring to is boat ramp etiquette - an art unfortunately lost in today's generation.

I think it's unreasonable to ask for kayakers to stay away from a boat ramp just because they are not registered. It is unethical for them to block the launch when tying their boat up, though. They should drop the boat off to the side and then go park out of the way. Unfortunately the Fish Creek ramp is tiny and some people think parking off to the side on the grass is sufficient, when usually they are still in the way.

Even worse are people who use the boat launch as a fishing pier and don't move when you're trying to get your boat in and out of the water. I had a group of about 8 people fishing along the shore - fine. I was trying to get my boat out and they just stood there on the dock, completely in the way, with their lines casted behind the boat. I told them I'm putting this boat on the trailer now, and they got the hint but still didn't move. Parents standing there the whole time acting like I was doing something wrong by using the boat launch for launching my boat.

Not just FCP though - visit any boat ramp on a crowded day and you'll find people doing all sorts of stupid things. I was waiting 5 minutes at another ramp in the ADKs for some guy to untie his winch line in front of the ramp. I asked him if I could drop in quick and he said "I'm about to back in soon." To which I replied, "Yeah, well, you're tying up the entire ramp." and drove back to the side where I stared at him while he took his sweet time launching, then tying a bow, stern, and spring line for a 2 minute dock. Unbelievable.

I boat to relax, and it gets to a point where a confrontation will only ruin your day out on the water. The best you can do is inform people of their indecency and let them decide for themselves what to do going forward. I've kayaked and have now moved onto a 20' bowrider with a 270hp V8, also on a tandem axle trailer, so I get where you're coming from. Some people just don't get it, or simply don't know boat launch etiquette.
Scientist
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Re: Is a kayak/canoe REALLY a boat?

Postby Scientist » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:16 pm

Well said. Same here. 20’ boat and repeatedly have to warn people i need the entire dock to hold the ropes to launch. Please get out of the way or the ropes will hurt you. Again they stand there. Some still fish. Then complain when the stern rope brushes against them. Well you were warned. What more can i tell you? Would you like to help? How about the launch fishing people casting at, into, and in front of your boat as you head upstream into the launch? Some set there bobber accross your bow n look at you funny. I have to warn them their line will get tangled in my prop. Please real in people. I also launch my canoe on the sides of the launch. I drop my gear n park the truck. Then load n go. Leaving the launch clear to use for boaters. So i know both sides of the coin and cannot understand how rude and impolite some people get when you ask them if you can launch your boat in the boat launch. Also every year there always seems to be abandoned vehicles in the launch area where signs clearly state no parking, or at least when i go to launch my boat. This year there was only one. The guy got out of his truck and i was so upset i ripped into him. Then found out he was the boat inspector. Oops. Sorry man. Boy did i feel bad. Thanked him for moving and keeping the launch clear this year. I noticed some state launches have designated canoe or car top boat launch areas. Some along side the boat launch. At Broadalbin state boat launch the sherriff will even kick you out or ticket your vehicle in the parking lot for not having a boat trailer. They use the old beach for car top launches and parking. The state boat launch parking lot is for trailered vehicles only. I think in todays day n age launch ettiquette has clearly been lost in this new generation. It’s sad to think that if people were ticketed launch ettiquette could return. Since we are starting a new age of boat inspectors at the launch this could easily be achieved as well if they get empowered to do so.
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kkirsch
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Re: Is a kayak/canoe REALLY a boat?

Postby kkirsch » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:07 pm

Many times there are groups of day use people that just come in the park to paddle the creek. Though there are also people that could launch and land their craft at the picnic area they don't realize there is another way. If you have a boat that is 4000 lbs with a 200 hp engine, you are on the other side of the problem. A complaint can be said is that boat way to big to be in the park.
d_s_144
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Re: Is a kayak/canoe REALLY a boat?

Postby d_s_144 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:25 pm

What? You must not be a boater. My gear is 'standard' in the recreational boating world. I see the 26' Donzis with blown 454's and the yellow Checkmate, also with a 454, on the Ponds every year. You could make the argument that those boats may be a bit excessive for the Ponds (but not Saranac, they're purpose-built for that type of water), but certainly not my Fish & Ski boat that is the same as the throngs of boats you see dragging kids all over the Ponds on an average day.

You seem a bit misinformed, my friend.
cf06adk
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Re: Is a kayak/canoe REALLY a boat?

Postby cf06adk » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:52 pm

kkirsch wrote:Many times there are groups of day use people that just come in the park to paddle the creek. Though there are also people that could launch and land their craft at the picnic area they don't realize there is another way. If you have a boat that is 4000 lbs with a 200 hp engine, you are on the other side of the problem. A complaint can be said is that boat way to big to be in the park.


That's not too big at all. If you can float it from the launch under the bridge then you're good. Same with the channel.

Honestly I thought about using the upper saranac launch and boating down to FCP but there's no overnight parking there. So hopefully next year people will learn the etiquette. Until then it's just a minor inconvenience until getting to your site.
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kkirsch
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Re: Is a kayak/canoe REALLY a boat?

Postby kkirsch » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:01 pm

About misinformed, I have been run over by such a boat when in a sail canoe with the sail up by a what I would call a to large boat. It was operated by someone who thought traveling at high speeds across the ponds was a normal thing while pulling teenagers on skis. They also thought it was a good idea to watch the kids instead of where they were going. They stated that they did not see me even though I was in irons and they hit me broadside at probably 3/4 throttle or more. There have also been others who over the years were swamped by such large craft for who I have pulled out of the water. For my boats, I have a 15ft Whaler with a 70, 10 foot racing runabout, 8 ft 3 point hydro and 2 canvas canoes (including the one that was run over)
cf06adk
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Re: Is a kayak/canoe REALLY a boat?

Postby cf06adk » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:51 pm

kkirsch wrote:About misinformed, I have been run over by such a boat when in a sail canoe with the sail up by a what I would call a to large boat. It was operated by someone who thought traveling at high speeds across the ponds was a normal thing while pulling teenagers on skis. They also thought it was a good idea to watch the kids instead of where they were going. They stated that they did not see me even though I was in irons and they hit me broadside at probably 3/4 throttle or more. There have also been others who over the years were swamped by such large craft for who I have pulled out of the water. For my boats, I have a 15ft Whaler with a 70, 10 foot racing runabout, 8 ft 3 point hydro and 2 canvas canoes (including the one that was run over)


That's more of a reckless driver, not a boat that's too big. I hope you got their hull number and called the police because I don't think anyone wants people like that on the ponds.

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